Ever plan on changing sprites?? I Lav this game and it's efficiency what can I offer
-- backdash rework
---- dash back in the last patch has exhibited the same issue that jumping backward the previous one had. it was not committal enough, and often the optimal "safe" choice. the new change focuses on making it harder to run away safely, encouraging more interesting mixups
---- All back-dashes (including cowboy walk) are no longer actionable on the opponent's turn until their first actionable frame, and a couple of them have received frame data nerfs.
---- forward dashes no longer have 1f of lag before they start moving.
-- new system: counter-hit
---- if you start a melee attack before or the same frame the opponent also begins a melee attack, and it lands, the opponent suffers more hitstun and hitlag than usual.
---- this is the same activation condition as parry.
-- new mechanic: Yomi advantage (temporary name)
---- following the theme of parry and counterhit rewarding the player who acts proactively (instead of reactively), i am reifying this concept into a real mechanic. If you start an action before or at the same time your opponent does, it may have extra buffs & properties. Conversely, if you attempt an action in reaction to your opponent, it may be less effective. For now, I am trying this out with moves that have invulnerable startup - if you use your move Yomi advantage, you keep the invulnerability. if you use your move in reaction to your opponent, you do not. Parry and counter-hit now are also conditional on this state - that shouldn't change much. When using a move that benefits from Yomi advantage, there will be a particle effect emitted over the character.
-- more work on parries
---- you are once again able to continue parrying multiple hitboxes after parrying one. that you couldn't do this was an oversight.
---- leniency for parrying projectiles increased +1f
-- new anti-"infinite" mechanic
---- each use of a melee attack vs an opponent during a combo will increase its knockback.
---- this prevents the degenerative strategy of using the same moves vs a comboed opponent over and over
-- whiff cancel changes
---- you can now only whiff cancel into moves with melee hitboxes
---- whiff cancel now uses 1/2 burst instead of 1/3
---- whiff cancel now resets your stance
-- burst cancel is now only usable on hit
-- default character distance increased (30px -> 50px)
-- character distance setting added
-- max character distance reduced (640 -> 600)
-- burst changed from frame 1 to frame 2
-- taking damage slightly fills burst meter
-- some moves have had their minimum damage output increased, bypassing combo staling.
-- grabs no longer hit knocked-down characters. this was always an oversight.
-- characters can no longer occupy the same x coordinate. this caused lots of problems.
-- default stage width has been reduced to make the corner more relevant (1500 -> 1100).
-- hopefully fixed problems with resyncing
-- switched to GLES2 which should be more compatible with older devices
-- hurtbox dimensions now change during knockdown
-- fixed grounded combo counter not resetting and characters getting popped up early
-- reintroduced experimental modloader support with more features. many thanks to Ted#0420 and ZT2wo#9157!
-- Ninja's design comes from the early stages of development, as a way to test out the "fundamental tools" of fighting games in a new context. Observant fighting game players may note that Ninja had fit the shoto archetype, having a "fireball", an invincible uppercut, and a projectile-invulnerable flying kick. Unfortunately, this has led to Ninja's tools varying wildly in usefulness, from extremely powerful to basically useless. Additionally, the sticky bomb has proven to be a far too powerful move and led to boring, uninteractive combos based around looping it into itself. Its gimmick is unchanged - gaining a free action to force your opponent into a dangerous 50/50 - but the setup is much different.
-- Dash (backward)
---- added 3f startup before movement starts
---- first IASA frame increased (7f -> 9f)
-- Sticky bomb
---- completely reworked
---- now is a jumping command grab that attaches the bomb to the opponent or drops the bomb in place should it miss
---- much more lag and the throw knocks down, making it a combo ender (most of the time)
---- goes away if Ninja is hit
---- now automatically explodes after 120 frames, doing a bit more damage than the manual detonation
-- new move: Substitution
---- switches positions with the most recently-fired and close enough projectile belonging to Ninja
-- new move: Back Sway
---- new stance, step backward with some startup invulnerability, leads into limited but strong options
---- no invulnerability without Yomi advantage
-- new move: Palm Strike
---- only usable in Back Sway
---- high-damage high-knockback punch forward, difficult to combo out of
-- new move: Slide Kick
---- only usable in Back Sway
---- low counterpart to Palm Strike. hit-cancellable.
---- usable in Back Sway
---- moves farther forward
---- jumps less high
---- second hit knockback adjusted
---- no invulnerability without Yomi advantage
---- startup increased (3f -> 4f)
---- slightly larger hitbox
---- startup reduced (8f -> 7f)
---- more forward momentum (2 -> 4)
---- recovery increased +4f (both versions)
-- Cowboy was designed to be a simple, easy-to-understand character that relied on rushdown and honest mixups to get in and start their very good punish game, at the expense of advanced setups and space control. The latest patch, however, made it far harder for them to win neutral, and some of their moves have, while initially seeming strong, become harder and harder to use as the community figures them out. Design-wise, I think Cowboy is in a good place. They just need a few buffs to level the playing field.
-- 3 Combo
---- what makes this move unique is that it's a big commitment - if you don't land the 2nd hit, you are open to getting counter-attacked. but it wasn't very good at the thing it was supposed to be good at: chasing down opponents diagonally adjacent to you
---- moves faster
---- first two hits happen more rapidly (-2f recovery after first hit)
---- if any hitbox lands, the move slightly tracks towards the opponent
---- downward version doesn't reset momentum
-- Quick Draw
---- startup reduced (14f -> 10f)
---- startup reduced (6f -> 4f)
-- Ankle Cutter
---- startup reduced (12f -> 9f)
-- Horiz. Slash
---- no more looping this move
---- hitstun reduced (30f -> 14f)
-- 1000 Cuts
---- minimum damage per hit increased to 15
-- Izuna Drop
---- minimum damage increased to 60
---- minimum damage increased to 30
-- Updated placeholder sprites
-- with the last round of parry changes, Wizard has become a bit of a menace. I am making their close-up neutral mixups a bit worse to compensate for the enormous buff the new block mechanic gave them. Also, they should be inherently a little weaker now that backdash is nerfed and parries work more like they should. Wizard should be tricky to get in with, with multiple weird, niche tools, all of which are useful; but in the last patch, some of their tools were too universally good to be considered niche, and their usefulness eclipsed Wizard's intended weaknesses.
-- hover regains slower when you are in the air
-- Dash (backward)
---- added 3f startup before movement starts
---- first IASA frame increased (7f -> 9f)
-- Mana Strike
---- startup increased (5f -> 7f)
---- recovery increased +6f
---- visual FX made clearer
-- Tome Slap
---- hitstun reduced (30f -> 20f)
---- Hurtbox adjusted
-- Missile Form
---- startup increased (4f -> 9f)
---- speed increased (11 -> 15)
---- explosion minimum damage increased to 50
-- Updated placeholder sprites
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this has no business having a badass result
I have trouble seeing the Yomi Advantage particles, they're the smol green bubbles right ? I just noticed them while searching for it
Will there ever be a mac os port?
I don't know if it's because i'm using a laptop, but when i'm playing singleplayer, I have to leave the hitbox on or else it will lag heavily, like in that TV screen when Morpheus was fighting Neo. Sometimes it would fix itself, then I close the game, and it comes back. Everything else works fine.
also I think the timer is an oversight, found a wiz who was trying to time out but end up in 4 seconds every turn for the rest of the match lol, very good game tho. I'm hoping it reaches mainstream media when it releases on steam soon
I think adding one setup tech for cowboy would be great, I feel like he can get powercrept with the amount of stuff ninja or even wizard have. Something to do with the gun maybe, throw a cigar or a bottle and you can choose to shoot the opponent or the thing. Bottle can work the same as Hol Horse in jojo HFTF where glass shards fall off the sky. And maybe cigar will have a hitbox similar to magic missile that explodes when you shoot it, making new combo routes
It's not much, but it can keep the opponent from dodging cowboy and keeping the game more grounded
Anyone else still constantly getting "our game is stuck"
That button is there in case the game gets actually stuck(aka when both timers dont have a green circle around them and nothing happens). then you press that button to send the resync request
Very fun game, i just find it frustrating when i outplay someone at the start and they immediately disconnect. The game is so good thats really the only negative i have so far.
No single bad patch, your vision is great. (please change back missile form)
why the missile form startup increase. i am a little peeved
azking for brute again
this is great, ninja needed a rework, and cowboy is becoming noticably harder to win with as wizard becomes easier. Its incredible how good you are with meshing with community feedback. good job, i'm loving your work
Really love the game so far, these changes are awesome and it's refreshing to see it constantly get updated. Is there any way you'd be able to add frame-by-frame scrolling for replays? It can be a little hard to time exactly when you want to start editing them to see what you can change up (unless there's already a way and I'm blind lol). Love the work! Keep it up <3 <3
Ninja main. Overall thoughts after a few games:
Yomi Advantage - Utterly necessary change, Ninja DP was a win-all option in a lot of situations, and you could often force players to waste resources and then punish them for on top of it. The old -1 traps are a lot less effective now, and that's for the best.
I do think maybe having DP gain its invincibility later when you don't have Yomi Advantage would *feel* better while still differentiating it in situations where you don't have YA without discounting the changes made.
Backsway & Backsway attacks - Really love it, but I feel like its missing something to really tie it together. In almost all situations, Palm Strike and DP are unoptimal, leaving sweep as the only relevant tool.
Palm Strike can be used to finish out rounds by bypassing DI and combo scaling, but it is as hard to combo into as it is to combo out of(Not something I think should change, just an observation). Makes it only really useful as a callout or to checkmate people on burst rather than an ender, as ninja has better enders in the same situation.
Sticky Bomb - Another necessary change, though I would say that the sticky bomb attack is needlessly finnicky. It seems to be both momentum and timing based, causing it to only be hittable in very specific circumstances instead of being a consistent answer. Currently, you always get it if you can, and if you can't, you just go for damage.
Substitution(I can smell a fellow Naruto fan) - LOVE this. Giving ninja more mobility tools that can be used in interesting ways is always good. Gotta constantly keep track of where all my stuff will be on the screen and how that may be useful in the future. Already had a game where I used my caltrops as both an escape and a pressure tool. Bangup job, 10/10.
Thoughts on the game - More characters would be sick. Cowboy is fundamentally broken in the sense his gameplan is too muddled
Ideas to consider and then promptly throw out -
Spartan with a shield/spear - Shield Charge that auto guards and has a hitbox, hit/block cancelable. Sweet spot on spear attacks?
Give Cowboy more actions out of Quick Draw stance. At long range he's parry fodder, at close range he's whiff-cancel bait.
According to a video where the dev played with someone, the next character is gonna be a Robot. Apparently it's gonna based around super-armour attacks, and likely be the slowest class.
Idk why this had two downvotes, everything said was very apt lmao.
got to play 3 games before i had to sleep and the ninja changes feel really fun. New tools are always fun, but the incresed knockback for same moves makes me vary my combos a bit more which is very fun. Backsway took a bit getting used to but it is excellent against cowboy at lightning strike range :D
Though the Yomi Advantage uppercut seems absolutley brutal. +70 when i instant cancel and +50 when i just land lets me basically set up a devastating combo no matter what, where before i had to spend meter to get a combo out of it. Not saying it is bad, but it got my cowboy friend to shout many bad words :D
Making Yomi Advantage a Thing seems like a good idea as i found myself going back to neutral far more often so i could read a move with backsway or other shenanigans and the increased whiff cancel cost made me consider my moves a bit more instead of always forcing the triple whiff cancel dance.
Getting burst bar while getting comboed combined with the increased whiff cancel cost means that you actually get to use Burst defensively now because its not such a huge waste of resources and you often have ~50% while starting to get combo´d
Havent played against a wizard but really liking this patch :D
Can we possibly get a way to change the speed of replays? They are cool looking fast but not easily comprehenable. I just wish it was a little slower, so I could see what was actually going on, while still looking cool. But a slider while watching a replay to slow it down and speed it up at will would be super cool!
I quite liked comboing into grabs, and unless this applies to command grabs, cowboy should still be able to. Though, I'm a ninja main and I just got a command grab combo ender, so I really shouldn't be complaining. But grabs were fun the way they were, Imo. Perhaps air grabs can still grab falling opponents? That would make sense, wouldn't it?
Whiff cancel for sure was too spammable. It made everything super safe most of the time. I understand the nerfs, it's gonna be tricky to get used to them though lol. Theoretically this should make the game more chess like. And seeing as that's vaguely the intention of the game, yeah, makes sense. But I would worry that this cuts into a really captivating meter management mechanic, perhaps an option to adjust the cost of stuff like instant cancels and whiff cancels and stuff could be added? Increase the costs to decentralize cancels. Lower the cost, to have more cancels, because they're epic and stylish and cool and whatnot.
I was hoping burst's "animation" would be sped up. To me it feels like it's stuck in that pose where it's invincible for weirdly long. I feel this is for the sake of launching the opponent on hit, but not giving the burster too much oki after that launch. Perhaps on whiff it could end quicker?
Ninja's DP nerfs are sad but given the new stuff I think it's reasonable. It's still good at what it's best at, being the "this goober's gonna do a thing, I'm almost certain of it" attack. But obviously it being locked behind a stance, might make it less convenient. I think this is good, if only due to the fact that it'll encourage more variety in these sort of situations. If you didn't prepare for the shenanigans, it should be a bit tricker.
And a new stance is good fun! Ninja is my character of choice, cause my friend was playing cowboy. And I'm glad, Ninja's setup shenanigans and stances are my jam.
I wasn't aware that bomb was so strong, I liked a throwable bomb though. And I liked the bomb sitting there until you exploded it. It was a fun setup tool. Especially when combined with caltrops, nunchucks, chasing people through the air, and etc. Perhaps a version of original bomb that does more damage, or does no damage but lots of hitstun as a setup trap could be added as a level 2 super? Or something along those lines. I think this'd be (relatively) cool. And given that you are chosing between this, a good movement tool, and the very GOATed caltrops, it should be, relatively balanced? At least conceptually. Don't take my word for it though, I'm just an aspiring game designer for a reason lmao.
Glad to see the horizontal slash nerf. That move was kinda goofy, in a not fun way. The buffs are, a little concerning. But I'm biased because my friend plays cowboy.
Besides that I still think that cowboy is tonally inconsistent. Cowboys aren't known for teleporting or swinging giant swords. I like the character, good fun, I certainly get the idea. But "Cowboy" I'd argue isn't the most apt name. If we are going funny anime fighter gun men with sword, which I am assuming is the actual archetype this is based off of, I think "Gunslinger" would be more appropriate a name. A nitpick yes but if you ask me it'd make more sense. Vague enough to be a good name for generic gun sword anime man, but close enough to what western gunslingers are known for, so cowboy themed moves like the lasso wouldn't be too out of place. A good compromise, if you ask me.
I'm very hyped that such substantial updates are coming so soon after launch. I'd have joined the discord to give these thoughts earlier today before the update dropped, but I do not own a personal phone yet. So I made a itch account. I like this game, my PS4 is my gaming medium of choice. My laptop is really weak and old, and I'm not able to wire it up conveniently. So a fighting game in this game is particularly convenient. And really cool :). It's been good fun so far, I can't wait to see what happens going forward.
After playing a fair bit I have more notes:
The lack of horizontal height gained from Ninja's DP as of now, I feel, is honestly a bit cruel. It barely goes off the ground at all! I honestly don't mind the height being nerfed, traditional anti airs aren't quite a thing in this game. And the lower the height gained, technically the more safe the move becomes. But this very much limits situations where you could bounce someone into the air, and then go into DP and hit with the latter half. Which was a good non jump way to get into the air and start my beloved double jump air combos. It's especially good in that regard after cancels, where you cannot always jump right after. Something in between pre patch and post patch would be nice. Or, perhaps, DP could get a stance-esque shenanigan. Where after the first hitbox comes out on the ground, where you'd normally just be able to cancel, you could also chose how high the DP goes. Like how you'd select the light, medium, or hard version of a DP in street fighter by your choice of buttons. This'd be cool! Maybe it'd give the move a bit too much versatility, but we've already lost the invincibility. Really, if you could chose between the height of pre patch, and the height of post patch, it'd just be for the sake of comboing with one, where you couldn't with the other, or going higher into the air or staying closer to the ground for combos. If anything, the option for a higher DP would more often be a liability.
Cowboy can still kinda just spam stuff like lighting strike for free high damage combos. Even with DI it's honestly kinda dumb, he can still rep like 8+ before he has to do something else, usually teleport, at which point he can often just, do another set. Cowboy is supposed to be the easy to pick up character, but honestly where other characters like Ninja are forced to really use all their options, or be ready to adapt to situations where some of their options won't hit, and their disadvantage stake is so much more exploitable (though this was made much better by the new teleport, praise Jesus for that one, finally made my cowboy friend have a taste of his own medicine lmao) cowboy just gets to hit the funny button(s) and has a million ways to escape tricky situations for free. The latter was a much bigger issue last patch because Ninja had no burst option equivalent to missile mode or teleport so I wouldn't get caught up with that. But when it comes to the former even with the new knockback bonus to moves that are repped, it doesn't change Cowboy's honestly kinda lame combos.
I played him once and totally swamped my friend, cowboy can be played really cool and do really cool combos, but you don't have to do that at all. Which isn't very fair compared to the other two where you need planning, you need to do setup, you need to use most if not all of the stuff in your kit, and etc. Cowboy has potential to be incredibly cool but his current role as the easy baby mode character is honestly kind of sabotaging that. Because the only time I've seen people use anything outside of the same single digit set of moves that chain into themselves over and over again is when I picked up the character for the first time to obliterate my friend, while going for style over substance. After which my friend actually started incorporating more of cowboy's kit occasionally. But after punishing him for going for that sorta stuff because it's not as good as spamming his spammable moves, he quit doing that. That's totally limited my friend's ability to get creative with combos, and is progressively making him worse at the game and not better. That's not my or his fault. The character is just in a totally malfunctional state right now.
If you ask me, as an aspiring game designer, I'd rather see this character's potential realized then keep them stuck in a role it doesn't fit in well. Either that, or cowboy can be made relatively more forgiving, while nerfing his nonsense in a way that doesn't kill his cool moves that are good atm, but instead encourages and even forces when necessary more thoughtful and diverse play. So that way he's at least fair and comparable to the other two characters, in terms of how the brain power to damage/funny combo number go up scale. Honestly stuff like his swipes can stay spamable, those are equivalent to the punches and kicks of the other characters and you can chain those a fair bit. And they are quite forgiving, but honestly they aren't as offensive as some of his other "why is this the way it is?!" spammable moves. Like lighting strike. And the swipes do look quite cool in the replay. Those, honestly, could maybe just stay the way they are. But his long range super disjointed special moves and whatnot can just be chained, and for way longer than other character's actual moves that are supposed to he chained. Or even his moves, which are supposed to be chained. Lighting strike needs a bit more recovery time, and a lot more knockback. I'd personally make it the mid/long range combo ender. But unless stuff like this is changed, the grand canyon sized divide between cowboy's mindless chaining and the other two character's fun strategical decision making will continue to grow.
And it's already bad enough as is. To have a chance of getting a half health combo with Ninja, you gotta spend resources, have great spacing in the ground and air usually using double jumps very strategically and skillfully, and chose your attacks in your string wisely. To get a half health combo or more with cowboy? Hit an attack on the ground, teleport wherever you need to be, hit the buttons you wanna hit over and over until you need to teleport again or whatever, until your opponent inevitably bursts or DI's into the air. If the former, so long as you weren't hit which is likely if the enemy isn't wise, (which is likely given the average range of cowboy's sword attacks) your disjoints and instant burst movement should get you in perfect position to punish. If the latter you gotta use and eventually run out of air actions, at which point your combo might be over. But even so by the end of the air combo you'll still have netted a fair bit of damage, even outside of the previous half of the combo on the ground. That's a huge discrepancy.
And because of just how much easier it is to do lame combos, nobody really combos with cowboy the way he's clearly intended to do combos. My friend says his kit feels bloated, I theorize this is because he feels half of it doesn't need to be there for cowboy to play the way most people play him now. I can even tell that he's starting to have less fun. Especially now that Ninja actually has a teleport and a new evasion move. Despite all the damage buffs, and Ninja's substantial nerfs, my friend is losing worse than ever, and when he does get a hit? He's not encouraged to be methodical or thoughtful like I'm forced to be, he's just hitting the buttons, and going through the motions. The character's just not in a healthy state. He needs a slight rework, because in many aspects he needs some minor buffs, but he also needs the chain combo spam crippled. My friend's a loyalist, I don't know how long I'll be able to convince him to play the game when the one character he's interested in on a conceptual and aesthetic level (and to a massive degree in both regards) is in the state cowboy currently is. And it's quite sad, because he was the one to introduce me to the game in the first place!
those wizard nerfs hurt badly... please sir leave my boy alone.... the block changes made his projectiles too good so you nerf all his good non-projectiles and don't change them??, whyyyy.....
how do you install newest version
Reworking backdash was the right decision, especially for Ninja, backdash in the beginning was a very safe and effective play with very few countermeasures.
If my opponent whiffed something, I got frame advantage, and if they didn't do anything, I just threw a shuriken.